evadne_noel: A man and the cresent moon in a rowboat (Kerry 2004)
[personal profile] evadne_noel
I know I am potentially alienating some people by doing this, but I live in D.C., work in D.C., and am getting my master's degree in political communication in D.C., so it would be a failure on my part to not talk about politics. As I said, it may be stupid to do this, especially right before posting a new Breadbox Edition, but the debate was important, and I want to talk about it. And unfortunately for you, the person I usually talk politics with is in another country right now. So...

IF YOU DO NOT CARE ABOUT AMERICAN POLITICS, OR ARE EASILY OFFENDED BY LIBERAL COMMIE PINKO VIEWPOINTS, READ NO FURTHER. Thank you, and sorry for the caps lock:

Actually, that warning is kind of overkill for this particular post. I'm actually not going to espousing my usual liberal, elitest crap this time, and some of this is actually political humor. Let's start with that, actually.

THE DEBATE

The debate in short hand:

KERRY: Alliances.
BUSH: Consistency.

Stupid gaffs of the debate:

KERRY: "I have always been in favor of [nuclear] proliferation." (This is paraphrased as gaffs are edited out of transcripts)
BUSH: *mistakes Osama bin Laden for Saddam Hussein.* (also edited out of transcripts)

Canidates' other problems:

KERRY: *unnecessarily big words*
BUSH: *unnecessarily long pauses*

Cringe-worthy responses to opponent's accusations:

KERRY: "I have no intention of wilting. I've never wilted in my life."
BUSH: "First of all, of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that."

The "Oh, he walked into that" moments (with the jist of opponent's response):

KERRY: "Help is on the way."
BUSH: And how do you do that if you don't believe the war is winnable?

BUSH: "The enemy attacked us."
KERRY: Yeah, Osama bin Laden. Who has what to do with Iraq?

Surreal moments:

BUSH AND KERRY briefly exchange parenting tips.

KERRY smirks and laughs inappropriately while BUSH criticizes him on something concrete.

BUSH repeatedly insists on the importance of Poland in the Iraqi coalition.

KERRY uses every word but "lie," and seems offended when moderator Jim Lehrer implies Kerry wants people to think it.

BUSH calls Russian President Vladimir Putin by his first name multiple times and it sounds really awkward.

And now for my real feelings on the debate:

Because I support Kerry, it seems obvious that I will claim he won the debate. Which I am going to. Here is why, however:

First of all, everyone thought the timed format was going to bring Kerry down. Kerry is known as long-winded and circuitous, and such a style would cause him to run over on the two minute time limit. However, Kerry showed unusual poise and curtness when making his points. His little red light (signaling that time was up) never blinked. He was calm and collected (though his hands were shaking when he made his hand gestures). His answers were direct and evenly stated.

This is opposed to President Bush, who was always willing to jump to a 30 second response, but wasted five of his seconds stuttering to get his answer out. He let Kerry annoy him, and it showed on his face. He paused continually, not just at the end of sentences to form his next thought (still not the best public speaking, but forgivable), but in the middle of sentences or even phrases. Of course, the president has never been known as an accomplished public speaker, and all of this is style anyway. Substance is what's important.

In this realm, the speakers were a little more equal. Bush continued to push the belief that Kerry is a flip-flopper (the word was never used), and Kerry attempted to dispell that idea. It will not be clear until later if that worked. It may have worked, because Kerry did formulate his consistent policy on Iraq clearly: He agreed Saddam was a threat with WMDs. He believed Saddam had WMDs because the president said so. He voted for the use of force because he believed the president would exhaust every available resourse (diplomacy, UN, etc.) before going to war. Now, he does not believe those resources were exhausted, but he still believes Saddam was a threat.

However, Bush has the advantage on this topic because most people believe Kerry is inconsistent and Kerry has never tried to really clear that up until now. Bush has the past on his side, and during the debate he continually tried to make Kerry look inconsistent. Bush's repetition will work to his advantage.

On Kerry's side, I have always been against the war (hey, I protested on Oxford Street once), and I do believe that the change of motive from WMDs to "getting rid of bad dictator" is misleading, because, um, Sudan. Genocide, bad dictator, actual known harborer of al Qaeda, and did I mention genocide? If we were really out to get rid of the EBIL BAD MEN of the world, Iraq was not the place to start. But enough of my liberal propaganda. I don't really want to have this argument.

On Bush's side (yes, I do have nice things to say about him), I have to agree that Kerry's way of talking about the Iraqi Governing Council is not helping. Because, whoever wins in November will have to deal with the Iraqi Council, and implying they have no power will not make the transition any easier. Also, kudos to Bush for being strong on Putin and his treatment of political opponents. We have to remember they're our friends, but we can't just let the leaders do as they please.

Okay, now the second political thing I want to talk about is the LaRouche PAC. If you've never heard of him, LaRouche has been trying to run for president as a Democrat since about 1974. Obviously, he has never made it. Probably because he's a nutcase. His latest piece is called: "The Number One Issue in the Presidential Debates is George W. Bush's Mental Illness." He then goes on to describe how crazy Bush is, ascribing to him ADHD, an omnipotence complex, alcoholism (albeit dry alcoholism), sadism, a mild form of Tourette's, and an Oedipal Complex. Completely unsupported by hard data.

To Mr. LaRouche, I say this:

STOP BEING ON MY SIDE! YOU MAKE MY SIDE LOOK STUPID!

If you have managed to read all this, I am very proud of you.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-10-01 06:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] orange852.livejournal.com
[blink]

ADHD is a problem? Only if you don't have it! The rest of us are have a ball!

(no subject)

Date: 2004-10-02 07:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
I think LaRouche is implying ADHD is a problem when you're the most powerful man in the world. Some people just shouldn't be having a ball when the button to destroy the world is five feet away.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-10-01 06:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dreagoddess.livejournal.com
An excellent summary, and quite even-handed. Both candidates definitely had their shining moments and missteps, and not enough (or big enough) of either for a difference in the long run.

And not a liberal commie pinko shout in sight. ;) Although I'm terribly amused now that your color on my friendslist is pink...

(no subject)

Date: 2004-10-02 07:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
Thank you! I tried to be even handed despite my affiliations, and I'm glad you think I succeeded. I was a little disappointed that neither of them did or said something really, really stupid. There was a serious lack of drama in the debate.

Heh, your friendslist is psychic.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] dreagoddess.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-10-02 07:53 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2004-10-01 07:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] roguebelle.livejournal.com
BUSH calls Russian President Vladimir Putin by his first name multiple times and it sounds really awkward.

I'm so glad I wasn't the only one bothered by that. And the Poland thing was just odd.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-10-02 07:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
My friend Shelia kept calling Putin, "My buddy Vlad" after the debate. And if Bush had mention Poland once, I would have been like, "yeah, okay." But he kept bringing Poland up! Is the Polish vote highly coveted this year?

HA!

Date: 2004-10-01 10:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] forest-eyes.livejournal.com
HA!!! I read it all, watched 10 mins of the debate and I DON'T EVEN LIVE IN USA!!! HOW DO YOU LIKE THEM APPLES?!!! sorry. Am rather sugar high and have been caught singing Elton John songs at random moments. *hangs head in shame*

Re: HA!

Date: 2004-10-02 07:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
I rather like them apples. Apples are good.

Elton. John. Ooookay. Well I hope you've been singing "Saturday Night's All Right for Fighting," and not, say, "Bennie and the Jets."

Re: HA!

From: [identity profile] forest-eyes.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-10-04 12:57 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2004-10-02 12:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] calaquende.livejournal.com
Hehe, this was great. You should Breadbox the presidential debates.

KERRY: "I have no intention of wilting. I've never wilted in my life."
BUSH: "First of all, of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that."

So awesome! Love it. =)

(no subject)

Date: 2004-10-02 07:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
I can't believe they said those things. I just can't. So stupid.

Nice ^_^

Date: 2004-10-02 12:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hapycow.livejournal.com
Unfortunately, I missed the whole debate, but I managed to watch the end when all the poll results were up, and was horrified to see how well Kerry did *grumbles* ...I WISH I saw the debate, so my views could perhaps change, since I don't like Bush or Kerry. (but I REALLY don't like Kerry) So I won't have to be an evil American traitor..hm. Oh well, there's more debating to come! I really hope the better guy wins' God, I hope so. Even if I hate Kerry at the moment, I hope he turns out to be a good guy when he's in the White House (yes, the guy I hate always wins. You democrats and kerry supporters are quite lucky.) and if he's not, my intuition is right. ^_^

Re: Nice ^_^

Date: 2004-10-02 07:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
Well, if you were horrified to see Kerry ahead, I don't think watching the debate would have changed anything for you. It's really meant more for undecided people who haven't picked one side or the other yet. Still, whoever wins, I hope you're right. I would like someone good in the Oval Office (for a change). Yeah, right.

hmm i know i sound horrible...

Date: 2004-10-02 05:15 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I don't like Kerry or Bush and i figure that the USA is pretty screwed up already and getting one of those presidents isn't really going to help anything considering they are both rather inept.

I would also like to point out that i'm a Moderate and not a Democrat/Liberal or Republican/Conservative, so none of your views really offend me as i am on neither side. It was amusing though to read your Breadbox of the debate lol.

Cheers,
~Victoria

Re: hmm i know i sound horrible...

Date: 2004-10-02 07:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
It was easy to make the debate amusing because it was funny even before I did anything to it.

And I don't think you sound horrible. Lots of people have your opinion right now.

Debates

Date: 2004-10-02 11:30 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I'm a registered independent, but I'm DEFINITELY voting for Kerry. I watched the debates in full, and I, too, was struck by the continual Poland references. I was proud when I watched the Daily Show and Jon Stewart had the same reaction that I did. Now I have another comic genius to add to my list of people who thought like me, haha. I've been doing debate for 5 years, and I thought that it was pretty clear who came away with the debate. For one thing, Kerry kept Bush on the defensive, meaning that the issues were usually steered by Kerry. One thing I would have liked to have seen Kerry do was to bring up the problems with the USA Patriot Act, which I think is having a contest with the No Child Left Behind Act for the most ironically named piece of legislation. Anyway, I thought you were pretty balanced, and I enjoyed reading your thoughts!
Chris

Re: Debates

Date: 2004-10-17 04:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
I'm a registered independent as well (in case I ever want to do nonpartisan work). I actually missed the Daily Show coverage of the first debate, and was so upset!

You're definately right about Kerry keeping Bush defensive. Too bad Bush pulled himself together better by the last debate.

Frankly, I think "Clear Skies Initiative" wins the ironic legislative name.

Re: Debates

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2004-10-24 06:47 pm (UTC) - Expand

Next breadbox

Date: 2004-10-04 12:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maryjanecrowe18.livejournal.com
Sorry to interrupt the intellectual discusion of politics, but you mentioned in your introduction that you were about to post another breadbox edition. May I enquire as to which one? Check my live journal by the end of the week. I hope to post a Gladiator BBE by then. Please be kind as I am not the genius you are, but I would like your input. Sorry for the interruption...do continue!

W
The President

Seaquest Rocks

Signed, as always,
The Pirate of Your Heart
(Number 18 in the Program, Number 1 in your Liver)
Mary Jane Crowe

Re: Next breadbox

Date: 2004-10-17 04:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
Sky Captain in the World of Tomorrow. I'm sorry I haven't been around to trawl other peoples' ljs.

Vladamir

Date: 2004-10-04 10:16 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
The pronunciation of Putin's first name got to me, too, aside from the bare fact of using his first name. Was it just Dubya's twang that made him say Vlada"mer" with a short "e", as opposed to Vlada"mir" with a long "e" sound? or is that actually how it is pronounced? Because if he was right, then a whole lot of people, including me, have been doing it wrong for years. Not that I trust Bush's pronunciations enough to change the way I talk without confirmation. After all, this is the man who has literally filled books (at least 4 that I know of) with his poor enunciation.

Sorry, one more thing: why does he speak with a heavy Texas accent when he was born in Connecticut? His father even speaks with a New England accent (to me anyway; I'm from the south, which should, incidentally, account for any spelling or grammar errors as well).

Re: Vladamir

Date: 2004-10-17 04:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
We in CT completely, totally and without reservation give Bush to Texas. May they enjoy him.

Re: Vladamir

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2004-10-24 06:52 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Vladamir

From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-10-24 09:33 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Vladamir

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2004-10-27 09:51 pm (UTC) - Expand

haha LaRouche...

Date: 2004-10-06 03:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_lowercase/
his little supporters gave me booklets when i was visting LA last summer. they called cheney the spawn of satan, and said that bush was on crack cocaine.
okay, LaRouche, i'm not really listening to you anymore...
i made the mistake of giving them my home number and they call once a week to get me to either send them money or make myself look like a fool and protest with them. the hell if i would.

Re: haha LaRouche...

Date: 2004-10-17 04:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
I accidentally gave my email address to a senatorial canididate named McNally once, and I suspect I'll be getting emails till the day I die.

LaRouche seriously needs to chill out. Before he makes an ass of himself...wait, too late.

Poland!

Date: 2004-10-06 06:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com
*laughs* One of my friends is, like, 1/8 Polish or something, and he's always talking about how every 50 years or so the country gets trashed...poor Poland. So when Bush mentioned it, I was like "...Did he just give a shout out to Poland??"

And he did. Not just once, either . . . at least twice. Maybe more, but I turned the television off before it ended--I already know who I'm voting for, and it was starting to annoy me.

Did anybody else notice that over the course of the debate Kerry changed his mind about what he thought of the war in Iraq? He went from 'it wasn't a good idea and I never would have let that happen' to 'we're gonna win it!'

Heh.

Re: Poland!

Date: 2004-10-17 04:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
Ah, representin' Poland.

-need to go watch now-

Date: 2004-10-07 05:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] piyo-halliwell.livejournal.com
I have not gotten a chance to watch the debate, but I do have it tapped and waiting. my american history professor is giving us all extra credit for watching and evern though I am not too into politics, I am going to be voting this year (my first time) and after reading this, I really want to know what went on.

Re: -need to go watch now-

Date: 2004-10-17 04:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
Well, yay! I have contributed to the political process! Yes, my friend, VOTE! Vote with all your heart and make your civics prof. proud!

Re: -need to go watch now-

From: [identity profile] piyo-halliwell.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-10-20 11:48 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: -need to go watch now-

From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-10-21 10:03 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: -need to go watch now-

From: [identity profile] piyo-halliwell.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-10-22 04:37 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: -need to go watch now-

From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-10-24 09:34 pm (UTC) - Expand

^^

Date: 2004-10-08 02:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lijz-chick.livejournal.com
I lurve YOUR version of the debate!!^^

KERRY: *unnecessarily big words*
BUSH: *unnecessarily long pauses*

lol....U could make a BBE just out of that!!^^

Re: ^^

Date: 2004-10-17 04:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
Heh, I could, but I'd have to watch it several more times, and that would cause me to ran my head into the television and die.

Ay caramba!

Date: 2004-10-09 07:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mysterymeg.livejournal.com
As always, an accurate and biting summary of the debates. Go you.

I am also a Kerry supporter...Bush has to go. This ridiculous waste of lives often referred to as the 'war in Iraq' obliterated any positive thoughts I had about Bush. Kudos to you for being able to see them. I'm way too angry at him. It's so STUPID!

My only solace in this time is the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. His observations and deadpan line deliveries are a great tension reliever.

--Meg

Re: Ay caramba!

Date: 2004-10-17 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
Does anyone not love the Daily Show? I just got their "America" book for my birthday, and man is it funny.

It takes a lot of work to see the good in a canididate I dislike so much, but I have to do my best. It wouldn't look good if I worked in a nonpartisan someday, and they found I only spouted liberal viewpoints.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-10-11 08:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] grayestnova.livejournal.com
holy pushy politicans batman!


pure brilliance.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-10-17 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
"Let me finish! Let me finish!" Hey, Bush, that's the moderator. You don't tell him what to do.

Thanks.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-10-11 11:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciara-belle.livejournal.com
*waves* I followed you here from ff.net because I think the BBEs are hilarious and you are teh rawk. This entry had me cracking up!

an Oedipal Complex

I do not even want to think about that.

And the best part really was Bush's shout out to Poland. I just about fell off the couch laughing when he said that.

Did you see the articles about Bush's "mysterious bulge"? I wouldn't be surprised if they were feeding him answers.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-10-11 11:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ciara-belle.livejournal.com
D'oh! And I meant to say that I am friending you, which was the point of this comment in the first place.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-10-17 04:27 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] ciara-belle.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-10-17 05:22 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-10-18 03:46 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] ciara-belle.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-10-18 03:51 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-10-18 04:22 am (UTC) - Expand

icon

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2004-11-01 05:47 pm (UTC) - Expand

Your take on the Kerry/Bush debate

Date: 2004-10-16 08:05 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Hey,
I just wanted to let you know that I was fascinated by your take on the first debate. I watched it myself and I wasn't quite sure what to make of it at first. As an avid fan of getting Bush out of the Whitehouse, I've never really felt like a very good judge of Kerry because my bias AGAINST Bush means that I'd rather see almost anyone else as president (with obvious exceptions). But I really liked your take on who things played out and how issues worked for and against each canditate. Thanks for that!

Re: Your take on the Kerry/Bush debate

Date: 2004-10-17 04:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evadne-noel.livejournal.com
Voting against rather than voting for makes me uneasy in my mind, but I can't see what else to do. The best don't get into politics anymore, so I can't really vote for what I want. What I see is mostly prefabricated image now, but at least I know that. I can only do the best I can.

But it hurts.

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