WARNING: POLITICS AHEAD
Oct. 1st, 2004 02:17 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
I know I am potentially alienating some people by doing this, but I live in D.C., work in D.C., and am getting my master's degree in political communication in D.C., so it would be a failure on my part to not talk about politics. As I said, it may be stupid to do this, especially right before posting a new Breadbox Edition, but the debate was important, and I want to talk about it. And unfortunately for you, the person I usually talk politics with is in another country right now. So...
IF YOU DO NOT CARE ABOUT AMERICAN POLITICS, OR ARE EASILY OFFENDED BY LIBERAL COMMIE PINKO VIEWPOINTS, READ NO FURTHER. Thank you, and sorry for the caps lock:
Actually, that warning is kind of overkill for this particular post. I'm actually not going to espousing my usual liberal, elitest crap this time, and some of this is actually political humor. Let's start with that, actually.
THE DEBATE
The debate in short hand:
KERRY: Alliances.
BUSH: Consistency.
Stupid gaffs of the debate:
KERRY: "I have always been in favor of [nuclear] proliferation." (This is paraphrased as gaffs are edited out of transcripts)
BUSH: *mistakes Osama bin Laden for Saddam Hussein.* (also edited out of transcripts)
Canidates' other problems:
KERRY: *unnecessarily big words*
BUSH: *unnecessarily long pauses*
Cringe-worthy responses to opponent's accusations:
KERRY: "I have no intention of wilting. I've never wilted in my life."
BUSH: "First of all, of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that."
The "Oh, he walked into that" moments (with the jist of opponent's response):
KERRY: "Help is on the way."
BUSH: And how do you do that if you don't believe the war is winnable?
BUSH: "The enemy attacked us."
KERRY: Yeah, Osama bin Laden. Who has what to do with Iraq?
Surreal moments:
BUSH AND KERRY briefly exchange parenting tips.
KERRY smirks and laughs inappropriately while BUSH criticizes him on something concrete.
BUSH repeatedly insists on the importance of Poland in the Iraqi coalition.
KERRY uses every word but "lie," and seems offended when moderator Jim Lehrer implies Kerry wants people to think it.
BUSH calls Russian President Vladimir Putin by his first name multiple times and it sounds really awkward.
And now for my real feelings on the debate:
Because I support Kerry, it seems obvious that I will claim he won the debate. Which I am going to. Here is why, however:
First of all, everyone thought the timed format was going to bring Kerry down. Kerry is known as long-winded and circuitous, and such a style would cause him to run over on the two minute time limit. However, Kerry showed unusual poise and curtness when making his points. His little red light (signaling that time was up) never blinked. He was calm and collected (though his hands were shaking when he made his hand gestures). His answers were direct and evenly stated.
This is opposed to President Bush, who was always willing to jump to a 30 second response, but wasted five of his seconds stuttering to get his answer out. He let Kerry annoy him, and it showed on his face. He paused continually, not just at the end of sentences to form his next thought (still not the best public speaking, but forgivable), but in the middle of sentences or even phrases. Of course, the president has never been known as an accomplished public speaker, and all of this is style anyway. Substance is what's important.
In this realm, the speakers were a little more equal. Bush continued to push the belief that Kerry is a flip-flopper (the word was never used), and Kerry attempted to dispell that idea. It will not be clear until later if that worked. It may have worked, because Kerry did formulate his consistent policy on Iraq clearly: He agreed Saddam was a threat with WMDs. He believed Saddam had WMDs because the president said so. He voted for the use of force because he believed the president would exhaust every available resourse (diplomacy, UN, etc.) before going to war. Now, he does not believe those resources were exhausted, but he still believes Saddam was a threat.
However, Bush has the advantage on this topic because most people believe Kerry is inconsistent and Kerry has never tried to really clear that up until now. Bush has the past on his side, and during the debate he continually tried to make Kerry look inconsistent. Bush's repetition will work to his advantage.
On Kerry's side, I have always been against the war (hey, I protested on Oxford Street once), and I do believe that the change of motive from WMDs to "getting rid of bad dictator" is misleading, because, um, Sudan. Genocide, bad dictator, actual known harborer of al Qaeda, and did I mention genocide? If we were really out to get rid of the EBIL BAD MEN of the world, Iraq was not the place to start. But enough of my liberal propaganda. I don't really want to have this argument.
On Bush's side (yes, I do have nice things to say about him), I have to agree that Kerry's way of talking about the Iraqi Governing Council is not helping. Because, whoever wins in November will have to deal with the Iraqi Council, and implying they have no power will not make the transition any easier. Also, kudos to Bush for being strong on Putin and his treatment of political opponents. We have to remember they're our friends, but we can't just let the leaders do as they please.
Okay, now the second political thing I want to talk about is the LaRouche PAC. If you've never heard of him, LaRouche has been trying to run for president as a Democrat since about 1974. Obviously, he has never made it. Probably because he's a nutcase. His latest piece is called: "The Number One Issue in the Presidential Debates is George W. Bush's Mental Illness." He then goes on to describe how crazy Bush is, ascribing to him ADHD, an omnipotence complex, alcoholism (albeit dry alcoholism), sadism, a mild form of Tourette's, and an Oedipal Complex. Completely unsupported by hard data.
To Mr. LaRouche, I say this:
STOP BEING ON MY SIDE! YOU MAKE MY SIDE LOOK STUPID!
If you have managed to read all this, I am very proud of you.
IF YOU DO NOT CARE ABOUT AMERICAN POLITICS, OR ARE EASILY OFFENDED BY LIBERAL COMMIE PINKO VIEWPOINTS, READ NO FURTHER. Thank you, and sorry for the caps lock:
Actually, that warning is kind of overkill for this particular post. I'm actually not going to espousing my usual liberal, elitest crap this time, and some of this is actually political humor. Let's start with that, actually.
THE DEBATE
The debate in short hand:
KERRY: Alliances.
BUSH: Consistency.
Stupid gaffs of the debate:
KERRY: "I have always been in favor of [nuclear] proliferation." (This is paraphrased as gaffs are edited out of transcripts)
BUSH: *mistakes Osama bin Laden for Saddam Hussein.* (also edited out of transcripts)
Canidates' other problems:
KERRY: *unnecessarily big words*
BUSH: *unnecessarily long pauses*
Cringe-worthy responses to opponent's accusations:
KERRY: "I have no intention of wilting. I've never wilted in my life."
BUSH: "First of all, of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that."
The "Oh, he walked into that" moments (with the jist of opponent's response):
KERRY: "Help is on the way."
BUSH: And how do you do that if you don't believe the war is winnable?
BUSH: "The enemy attacked us."
KERRY: Yeah, Osama bin Laden. Who has what to do with Iraq?
Surreal moments:
BUSH AND KERRY briefly exchange parenting tips.
KERRY smirks and laughs inappropriately while BUSH criticizes him on something concrete.
BUSH repeatedly insists on the importance of Poland in the Iraqi coalition.
KERRY uses every word but "lie," and seems offended when moderator Jim Lehrer implies Kerry wants people to think it.
BUSH calls Russian President Vladimir Putin by his first name multiple times and it sounds really awkward.
And now for my real feelings on the debate:
Because I support Kerry, it seems obvious that I will claim he won the debate. Which I am going to. Here is why, however:
First of all, everyone thought the timed format was going to bring Kerry down. Kerry is known as long-winded and circuitous, and such a style would cause him to run over on the two minute time limit. However, Kerry showed unusual poise and curtness when making his points. His little red light (signaling that time was up) never blinked. He was calm and collected (though his hands were shaking when he made his hand gestures). His answers were direct and evenly stated.
This is opposed to President Bush, who was always willing to jump to a 30 second response, but wasted five of his seconds stuttering to get his answer out. He let Kerry annoy him, and it showed on his face. He paused continually, not just at the end of sentences to form his next thought (still not the best public speaking, but forgivable), but in the middle of sentences or even phrases. Of course, the president has never been known as an accomplished public speaker, and all of this is style anyway. Substance is what's important.
In this realm, the speakers were a little more equal. Bush continued to push the belief that Kerry is a flip-flopper (the word was never used), and Kerry attempted to dispell that idea. It will not be clear until later if that worked. It may have worked, because Kerry did formulate his consistent policy on Iraq clearly: He agreed Saddam was a threat with WMDs. He believed Saddam had WMDs because the president said so. He voted for the use of force because he believed the president would exhaust every available resourse (diplomacy, UN, etc.) before going to war. Now, he does not believe those resources were exhausted, but he still believes Saddam was a threat.
However, Bush has the advantage on this topic because most people believe Kerry is inconsistent and Kerry has never tried to really clear that up until now. Bush has the past on his side, and during the debate he continually tried to make Kerry look inconsistent. Bush's repetition will work to his advantage.
On Kerry's side, I have always been against the war (hey, I protested on Oxford Street once), and I do believe that the change of motive from WMDs to "getting rid of bad dictator" is misleading, because, um, Sudan. Genocide, bad dictator, actual known harborer of al Qaeda, and did I mention genocide? If we were really out to get rid of the EBIL BAD MEN of the world, Iraq was not the place to start. But enough of my liberal propaganda. I don't really want to have this argument.
On Bush's side (yes, I do have nice things to say about him), I have to agree that Kerry's way of talking about the Iraqi Governing Council is not helping. Because, whoever wins in November will have to deal with the Iraqi Council, and implying they have no power will not make the transition any easier. Also, kudos to Bush for being strong on Putin and his treatment of political opponents. We have to remember they're our friends, but we can't just let the leaders do as they please.
Okay, now the second political thing I want to talk about is the LaRouche PAC. If you've never heard of him, LaRouche has been trying to run for president as a Democrat since about 1974. Obviously, he has never made it. Probably because he's a nutcase. His latest piece is called: "The Number One Issue in the Presidential Debates is George W. Bush's Mental Illness." He then goes on to describe how crazy Bush is, ascribing to him ADHD, an omnipotence complex, alcoholism (albeit dry alcoholism), sadism, a mild form of Tourette's, and an Oedipal Complex. Completely unsupported by hard data.
To Mr. LaRouche, I say this:
STOP BEING ON MY SIDE! YOU MAKE MY SIDE LOOK STUPID!
If you have managed to read all this, I am very proud of you.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-01 06:28 pm (UTC)ADHD is a problem? Only if you don't have it! The rest of us are have a ball!
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-02 07:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-01 06:33 pm (UTC)And not a liberal commie pinko shout in sight. ;) Although I'm terribly amused now that your color on my friendslist is pink...
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-02 07:21 pm (UTC)Heh, your friendslist is psychic.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-01 07:34 pm (UTC)I'm so glad I wasn't the only one bothered by that. And the Poland thing was just odd.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-02 07:23 pm (UTC)HA!
Date: 2004-10-01 10:39 pm (UTC)Re: HA!
Date: 2004-10-02 07:25 pm (UTC)Elton. John. Ooookay. Well I hope you've been singing "Saturday Night's All Right for Fighting," and not, say, "Bennie and the Jets."
Re: HA!
From:(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-02 12:47 am (UTC)KERRY: "I have no intention of wilting. I've never wilted in my life."
BUSH: "First of all, of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that."
So awesome! Love it. =)
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-02 07:26 pm (UTC)Nice ^_^
Date: 2004-10-02 12:56 am (UTC)Re: Nice ^_^
Date: 2004-10-02 07:28 pm (UTC)hmm i know i sound horrible...
Date: 2004-10-02 05:15 pm (UTC)I would also like to point out that i'm a Moderate and not a Democrat/Liberal or Republican/Conservative, so none of your views really offend me as i am on neither side. It was amusing though to read your Breadbox of the debate lol.
Cheers,
~Victoria
Re: hmm i know i sound horrible...
Date: 2004-10-02 07:29 pm (UTC)And I don't think you sound horrible. Lots of people have your opinion right now.
Debates
Date: 2004-10-02 11:30 pm (UTC)Chris
Re: Debates
Date: 2004-10-17 04:14 pm (UTC)You're definately right about Kerry keeping Bush defensive. Too bad Bush pulled himself together better by the last debate.
Frankly, I think "Clear Skies Initiative" wins the ironic legislative name.
Re: Debates
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2004-10-24 06:47 pm (UTC) - ExpandNext breadbox
Date: 2004-10-04 12:40 am (UTC)W
The President
Seaquest Rocks
Signed, as always,
The Pirate of Your Heart
(Number 18 in the Program, Number 1 in your Liver)
Mary Jane Crowe
Re: Next breadbox
Date: 2004-10-17 04:15 pm (UTC)Vladamir
Date: 2004-10-04 10:16 pm (UTC)Sorry, one more thing: why does he speak with a heavy Texas accent when he was born in Connecticut? His father even speaks with a New England accent (to me anyway; I'm from the south, which should, incidentally, account for any spelling or grammar errors as well).
Re: Vladamir
Date: 2004-10-17 04:17 pm (UTC)Re: Vladamir
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2004-10-24 06:52 pm (UTC) - ExpandRe: Vladamir
From:Re: Vladamir
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2004-10-27 09:51 pm (UTC) - Expandhaha LaRouche...
Date: 2004-10-06 03:35 am (UTC)okay, LaRouche, i'm not really listening to you anymore...
i made the mistake of giving them my home number and they call once a week to get me to either send them money or make myself look like a fool and protest with them. the hell if i would.
Re: haha LaRouche...
Date: 2004-10-17 04:19 pm (UTC)LaRouche seriously needs to chill out. Before he makes an ass of himself...wait, too late.
Poland!
Date: 2004-10-06 06:57 pm (UTC)And he did. Not just once, either . . . at least twice. Maybe more, but I turned the television off before it ended--I already know who I'm voting for, and it was starting to annoy me.
Did anybody else notice that over the course of the debate Kerry changed his mind about what he thought of the war in Iraq? He went from 'it wasn't a good idea and I never would have let that happen' to 'we're gonna win it!'
Heh.
Re: Poland!
Date: 2004-10-17 04:19 pm (UTC)-need to go watch now-
Date: 2004-10-07 05:09 pm (UTC)Re: -need to go watch now-
Date: 2004-10-17 04:20 pm (UTC)Re: -need to go watch now-
From:Re: -need to go watch now-
From:Re: -need to go watch now-
From:Re: -need to go watch now-
From:^^
Date: 2004-10-08 02:17 am (UTC)KERRY: *unnecessarily big words*
BUSH: *unnecessarily long pauses*
lol....U could make a BBE just out of that!!^^
Re: ^^
Date: 2004-10-17 04:21 pm (UTC)Ay caramba!
Date: 2004-10-09 07:41 pm (UTC)I am also a Kerry supporter...Bush has to go. This ridiculous waste of lives often referred to as the 'war in Iraq' obliterated any positive thoughts I had about Bush. Kudos to you for being able to see them. I'm way too angry at him. It's so STUPID!
My only solace in this time is the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. His observations and deadpan line deliveries are a great tension reliever.
--Meg
Re: Ay caramba!
Date: 2004-10-17 04:23 pm (UTC)It takes a lot of work to see the good in a canididate I dislike so much, but I have to do my best. It wouldn't look good if I worked in a nonpartisan someday, and they found I only spouted liberal viewpoints.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-11 08:04 pm (UTC)pure brilliance.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-17 04:23 pm (UTC)Thanks.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-11 11:53 pm (UTC)an Oedipal Complex
I do not even want to think about that.
And the best part really was Bush's shout out to Poland. I just about fell off the couch laughing when he said that.
Did you see the articles about Bush's "mysterious bulge"? I wouldn't be surprised if they were feeding him answers.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-11 11:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:icon
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2004-11-01 05:47 pm (UTC) - ExpandYour take on the Kerry/Bush debate
Date: 2004-10-16 08:05 pm (UTC)I just wanted to let you know that I was fascinated by your take on the first debate. I watched it myself and I wasn't quite sure what to make of it at first. As an avid fan of getting Bush out of the Whitehouse, I've never really felt like a very good judge of Kerry because my bias AGAINST Bush means that I'd rather see almost anyone else as president (with obvious exceptions). But I really liked your take on who things played out and how issues worked for and against each canditate. Thanks for that!
Re: Your take on the Kerry/Bush debate
Date: 2004-10-17 04:30 pm (UTC)But it hurts.